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Thread: Schroth 2010

  1. #31
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    Hi Reira,

    I know your perspective is through your personal experience, but we need to also maintain a sense of urgency and hope for better treatment options for future patients if we are every going to find a cure or a better way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    but why is it so essential to altering the natural course?? Isnīt it enough to getting straight and derotated, to be painless, to have no problems with scoliosis?? :confused
    Getting straight and de-rotating is alterning the natural course of the condition. All bracing has done in your case is balance the curvatures.....often referred to as "moving the volume".


    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    Oh yeah, sure...

    2002: 27°
    2004: 36° (Scoliometer 12° thoracic, 4° lumbar)
    2005: 45°
    2006: 53° (Scoliometer 18° thoracolumbar)
    Do you really think, it would have stopped without intervention??
    BTW, now Iīm back to 47°, my spine is not anymore derotated, my scoliometer ist only 8° thoracic and overcorrection of 1° lumbar, I only have small pain sometimes and Iīm sure I also will get in control of my decompensation.
    Sorry, but cobb angles are a joke.....high margins of error and scoliometer readings subjective at best....the reality is that we will never know in your case, but it appears your curvature progression simply ran it's course as you reached skeletal maturity.....as expected....now it is likely it will progress at a 1-3 degree a year rate....just as the natural history predicts. Bracing is like giving antibotics for a viral infection.....everyone knows it isn't going to really do anything, but it comforting to try and ultimately the condition (a virus in this example) is going to have to run it's natural course.

    This is what happens when treatment is focused on the symptom, rather than the root cause of the problem. AIS is caused by a neurological problem involving the involuntary postural control centers of the brain and it will continue it's natural course regardless of what you do until the treatment starts targeting the root cause of the condition.....not the symptom.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    I took a look on your homepage. There I could read the benefits I would get for treatment of severe scoliosis:
    - Aleviate pain
    - Increased lung capacity / more room for organs
    - More energy
    - Increased life expectancy

    --> All this things I could also achieve while doing Schroth or/and bracing. So whereīs the difference??
    No one is arguing the value of treatment that improves one's quality of life, but that approach will never lead to a cure, nor alter the natural course of the condition.....which is still the goal in the future, no?


    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    Do you think, patients have the same opinion? I donīt think so, because I as a patient find it more important to hear or read experiences from other patients. I donīt give anything to studies, as long as there are enough positive experiences. If you read negative responses first this would lead to a first (negative) impression. Iīm sure you wouldnīt find it silly if you read a positive comment.
    I think patients want a better way. A treatment that is pro-active, non-invasive, and targets the primary, root cause of the condition. The standard of scoliosis treatment is reactive and passive. It also completely disregards the patient's long-term psychological health and quality of life. Have you read my thread that calls for a complete over-haul of the scoliosis treatment standards.

    http://www.fixscoliosis.com/threads/...t-be-televised


    I'm searching for the scoliosis treatment of the future!

    Toll-Free 1-866-627-3009 to schedule time/date for a free phone consult about your case.

  2. #32
    Registered Member Reira's Avatar
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    Hi Clayton,

    I know your perspective is through your personal experience
    no, not only my own experience, but the experience from other patients as well!!

    Getting straight and de-rotating is alterning the natural course of the condition
    And this is what good braces and Schroth does, nothing less!

    All bracing has done in your case is balance the curvatures.....often referred to as "moving the volume".
    Iīm not finished yet. Furthermore Iīm an adult, there are no long-time experiences with adult-bracing. But my spine is de-rotated, I have no pain (only very few), I have no breathing problems and my scoliosis donīt progress anymore. Quality of life is a very individual factor and I say in my case I have a hight quality of life!!


    the reality is that we will never know in your case, but it appears your curvature progression simply ran it's course as you reached skeletal maturity.....as expected....
    No. I reached skeletal maturity when I was 17 and this was 2001!! I progressed although I was mature because my curvature and muscles are too flexible and due to my type of curvature!

    now it is likely it will progress at a 1-3 degree a year rate....just as the natural history predicts
    Each patient is individual. I met more patients in which scoliosis progressed during adulthood more than Weinsteinīs prognosis.

    Bracing is like giving antibotics for a viral infection.....everyone knows it isn't going to really do anything, but it comforting to try and ultimately the condition (a virus in this example) is going to have to run it's natural course.
    Then I ask again, what should I do?? Oh, I really could chuck my brace to a rubbish bin, because I will get a new one in a few weeks. My doctor was absolutely satisfied with me, my x-rays and the therapy-methods.
    BTW, here you would get antibiotics for a severe viral infection to avoid an additionally bacterial infection. You could also say you have to wear a brace to avoid additionally symptoms.

    This is what happens when treatment is focused on the symptom, rather than the root cause of the problem
    That doesnīt eliminate methods who helped already.

    No one is arguing the value of treatment that improves one's quality of life, but that approach will never lead to a cure, nor alter the natural course of the condition
    Oh, but this aims are from your homepage! I only said, that this aims are not only achievable with Clear, but good braces and Schroth as well!

    I think patients want a better way.
    Iīam a patient and I would really appreciate new treatments. But what I really want is, that my quality of life isnīt suffering. That I could get treatment and "real life" together. I donīt want to constrain me to do this treatment. I will life so that my scoliosis doesnīt affect my life in this way that my quality of life is suffering. And this is not the case.
    Furthermore, what "we" want and what is possible are two kind of shoes!

    Best wishes, Reira


  3. #33
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    Hello Reira my friend! Again, I know this is a deeply personal and emotion topic for you, but we all need to look beyond our personal circumstances and experiences if we are going to work together to find a new and better path for ALL scoliosis sufferers in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    no, not only my own experience, but the experience from other patients as well!!
    <sigh>....and anyone can sit at a computer and pump out their one sided, emotionally driven, completely individualized experience on that given day, at that given time period.......Individual testimonials are a waste of time......I can't believe anyone puts any stock into them.....collectively they equal exactly nothing......they might as all we be signed "Barack Obama" at the end, because that is about as much credibility they deserve. Sorry for the political side track there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    And this is what good braces and Schroth does, nothing less!
    We agree to disagree on this point, but can you please explain the mechanism of events that causes AIS and how "good braces" and the Schroth method can change the natural course of events through the purposed mechanism of intervention? It is illogical to treat a neurological problem like a spine problem......it just doesn't make sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    Iīm not finished yet. Furthermore Iīm an adult, there are no long-time experiences with adult-bracing. But my spine is de-rotated, I have no pain (only very few), I have no breathing problems and my scoliosis donīt progress anymore. Quality of life is a very individual factor and I say in my case I have a hight quality of life!!
    I'm thrilled you are maintaining a high quality of life and I hope you can keep that up for the next 50-60 years......btw, you spine isn't de-rotated.....the coupled motion patterns of the spine pretty much makes that impossible if you have any significant amount of spinal lateral bending.



    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    No. I reached skeletal maturity when I was 17 and this was 2001!! I progressed although I was mature because my curvature and muscles are too flexible and due to my type of curvature!
    I'll agree that everyone's scoliosis is their own (no doubt about that), I think you'll also agree that your case is highly unusual and therefore pretty much outside the context of this broader discussion. This is what I was talking about in the opening paragraph of this post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    Each patient is individual. I met more patients in which scoliosis progressed during adulthood more than Weinsteinīs prognosis.
    Agreed. Weinstein's prognosis is an average. Beware of averages, because they don't hold true for any one individual, BUT they do tend to hold true in the broader discussion we are having on this topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    Then I ask again, what should I do?? Oh, I really could chuck my brace to a rubbish bin, because I will get a new one in a few weeks. My doctor was absolutely satisfied with me, my x-rays and the therapy-methods.
    I think you are doing the best you can with the best you have right now........again, this discussion isn't about you specifically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    BTW, here you would get antibiotics for a severe viral infection to avoid an additionally bacterial infection. You could also say you have to wear a brace to avoid additionally symptoms.
    Wow, that is a really bad position to take.....but since you did........that is the EXACT reason we shouldn't be recommending surgery for 40+ degree cobb angles based on the notion we are trying to "prevent" further progression (which is likely, but at a much slower rate) and "protect" pulmonary function......Wearing a brace (which creates muscular dependency and drastically reduces lung expansion) is right along the same flawed logic.

    Treat the disease, not the symptom.

    Just as in the example, trying the viral infection with anti-biotics on a "just in case" basis as created a much larger and worse problem......MERSA.....which is drug resistant and a major health problem now world wide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    Oh, but this aims are from your homepage! I only said, that this aims are not only achievable with Clear, but good braces and Schroth as well!
    Still waiting on your purposed mechanism explaining the mechanism of events that causes AIS and how "good braces" and the Schroth method can change the natural course of events through the purposed mechanism of intervention? It is illogical to treat a neurological problem like a spine problem......it just doesn't make sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post
    Iīam a patient and I would really appreciate new treatments. But what I really want is, that my quality of life isnīt suffering. That I could get treatment and "real life" together. I donīt want to constrain me to do this treatment. I will life so that my scoliosis doesnīt affect my life in this way that my quality of life is suffering. And this is not the case.
    So, you have lost all interest and sense of urgency to find better and less invasive treatments that could lead to a cure, just because your not in immediate crisis right now? Really? That isn't a good long-term plan for yourself or millions of other children across the world who have yet to walk the path your have already travelled. I know your a good and passionate person Reira. I know you want the children with scoliosis in the future to have a better way and more effective treatment than you did.....and that is way I will continue to search for a better way......with or without help from those whom are emotionally/financially invested in maintaining the status quo.


    I'm searching for the scoliosis treatment of the future!

    Toll-Free 1-866-627-3009 to schedule time/date for a free phone consult about your case.

  4. #34
    Registered Member Reira's Avatar
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    HI Clayton,

    <sigh>....and anyone can sit at a computer and pump out their one sided, emotionally driven, completely individualized experience on that given day, at that given time period.......Individual testimonials are a waste of time......I can't believe anyone puts any stock into them.....collectively they equal exactly nothing......they might as all we be signed "Barack Obama" at the end, because that is about as much credibility they deserve. Sorry for the political side track there.
    I donīt think so. Perhaps you should ask what other patients think about this.

    but can you please explain the mechanism of events that causes AIS and how "good braces" and the Schroth method can change the natural course of events through the purposed mechanism of intervention?
    AIS = Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis, idiopathic because there is still no evidence for a main cause!!
    Why do you always only speak from AIS, whatīs with juvenile oder infantil scoliosis?? They arenīt different to treat.

    I think you are doing the best you can with the best you have right now........again, this discussion isn't about you specifically.
    You directed the discussion to my case. But I could also ask, what should "we" do?? OK, perhaps a better way will be found in the future. But we have now Scoliosis and we need now a treatment!!!
    BTW, this discussion is not about finding a new way and so on either, itīs about Schroth! Maybe we could return to this topic now!

    Still waiting on your purposed mechanism explaining the mechanism of events that causes AIS and how "good braces" and the Schroth method can change the natural course of events through the purposed mechanism of intervention?
    Not only I explained this mechanism already, you could find it in other posts and threads.

    You wrote:
    "Getting straight and de-rotating is alterning the natural course of the condition."
    Therefore you answered your question already, this is what good braces and Schroth does! But again, I doubt that you ever saw a really good high-correction brace or a patient while doing Schroth.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Reira View Post

    AIS = Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis, idiopathic because there is still no evidence for a main cause!!
    Why do you always only speak from AIS, whatīs with juvenile oder infantil scoliosis?? They arenīt different to treat.
    I disagree, there is evidence all over the place in regards to the main cause of AIS......it just doesn't appear to be pointing to the answer you want to hear right now.

    I'm only speaking from an AIS perspective because that comprises over 80% of the total scoliosis cases and accounts for most of the surgeries.

    The recent break-throughs in genetic testing are showing that AIS has a very different genetic profile and origin than infantile and juvenile cases (which are probably different from each other as well), so it would stand to reason that they would require and respond to different treatment methods and AIS.


    I'm searching for the scoliosis treatment of the future!

    Toll-Free 1-866-627-3009 to schedule time/date for a free phone consult about your case.

  6. #36
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    Interesting in my searching I found a place in Georgia, I think atlanta that combines the scroth and spincor, I thought that was strange.



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